Author Topic: Appeal  (Read 3463 times)

Scoped

  • I'm on my way!
  • Posts: 4
Appeal
« on: July 20, 2010, 04:50:03 am »
Hello,

I would like to appeal a ban that happened to me. It is important to note what occurred prior to the ban for obvious reasons, so I will elaborate.

I began by pulling up my servers list and joining the |LMC| Firing Range !No Attacking! (LMCgaming.com) server. I immediately notice that there are  only two people on the server. There were two Iraq players in the game, no marines, and no one else. So,  I decide to join the marines and it resets everything (Game Commencing) and it brings all the players back to the spawn like usual, resets the timer, etc. After the countdown to start is finished I see one of the Iraq player’s shoots his teammate and turns towards me as if to shoot as well and I shoot back at him thinking he is spawn killing everyone. Before I can type anything in chat explaining my actions I hear his microphone say, “Hey, he’s my friend and he is away from keyboard. He won’t be bothered if I shoot him.” I immediately reply in chat, “Oh, ok,  I am sorry.”

I then go grab a sniper rifle and ammo-up and begin to head for “outside”. I go “outside” and head my way down to “C”. I turn around like I normally would to see if I was being watched or fixing to get shot, but I’m not. I make it to an ammo box between the spawn and “C” and I scope the exit to see if he was following or going to shoot me. I see that he is coming “outside” of the building to shoot me and I quickly start firing away, but I miss through his disco dance-like motions and he runs back towards the “inside”. Right before he makes it to the “inside” I shoot him. What had happened was he jumped and I shot him in the air, but the sand bags were in front of him and he would not have made it inside on the first jump to begin with and his body falls dead “outside”. Immediately I hear on his microphone, “hey, I was inside”. I type clearly in chat and refute his argument, “no, you were not, I shot you outside and your body is clearly outside as well.” He obviously doesn’t want to hear what I have to say about it and continues to try and argue with me about what is outside and tries quoting the rules to me, which are spamming as he speaks, and which I already knew in the first place. I continue my way to “C” after I had said my peace  and he then says something to the effect of (his microphone was cutting out), “I’m getting an admin”. I don’t argue with him and I think to myself, Hmm, more company would be nice and the administrators can be nice as well to observe the players and pal around with. I also thought it would be nice to have an admin here who could settle the dispute this guy had with me.

I continue to say nothing in chat and I wait to see where he is with the sniper scope. He had run back into the spawn area and gone away from keyboard. After he had said what he had to say about getting an admin someone else joined the server and immediately starts spawn killing him and his away from keyboard friend. At first I say nothing, because the server rules have not spammed yet and maybe he was new to the server. The spawn killing continues and I talk to him about it, but I see he is “outside” and trying to come and shoot me in “C” to where I am. So, I shoot him “outside” instead. He spawns and continues to spawn kill both of the other team players on Iraq side. I assume  both of the people he is spawn killing are away from keyboard, because they say nothing. Meaning, the one guy I was talking to alt tabbed out to get an admin. I sit in “C” and just continue to scope the exit and see if anyone comes outside so I can practice sniping on moving targets, which is not against the rules.

About the time the new player was spawn killing for a third time two people join who were obviously administrators and had different names than usual. They joined the server under different names than usual to see whatever they were expecting to see, continuing. They were not using their usual LMC tag names. They were “under the radar”, so-to-speak.  I knew one was obviously an administrator right away, because the name said “Ms. T” and they both had joined at the same time so the other had to be as well, but I had nothing to hide anyway and I continued to wait in “C”. The person who had joined continued to spawn kill and he gets banned for spawn killing I assume.

A little while after this all happens I hear “Ms. T” say something on the microphone, but it was very choppy and it immediately cuts out and I didn’t understand a word of it. The only thing recognizable was the fact that the voice was female. I type in chat that her microphone is not very good and she says “I don’t care”. Then I see 3 people standing on the “edge” (wood) through my scope as I wait in “C” behind a wall. Then “Ms. T” says, “If I have to come back I am going to be pissed.” No one says anything on microphone or in chat and then “Ms. T” leaves the game. The other incognito administrator who hasn’t said or done anything that would imply he or she was an admin just waits incognito for something to happen.

Next, someone else joins the game while I am still in “C” and this new player kills the away from keyboard guy who had been in the game from the start. I type in chat, “Ms. T is going to be pissed”. The new player immediately gets slapped and the incognito administrator reveals his or herself as an administrator and says “don’t kill inside”. His or her point was made and the game continued as usual, but no one was chatting or using their microphone and no one was target practicing or playing for that matter. The administrator and the guy who had summoned the administrators were just sitting “inside” on the “wood”. Time goes by and I want to liven up the mood, because I had never heard Trouble on the microphone before even though I had played with an LMC Trouble a couple of times on this very same server, but I heard the faint female voice on the microphone and I immediately thought to myself, Hey, that’s a women’s voice and I have heard KaubaiBoi talk about his wife on several occasions. Maybe that was his wife, I thought. Time continues to go by and nothing happens. No one is disobeying the rules and everyone is basically waiting. It’s just the incognito admin, the now silent guy who argued with me in the beginning, and me. Also, the away from keyboard friend is still away from keyboard. I get the feeling my accuser is waiting for something to happen to me, but nothing does.

Time still continues to go by and I type in chat (addressing it towards my accuser), “Ms. T was probably baking cookies and now you got her all discombobulated”.  The silence still continues. I get the feeling I’m not wanted, but I get no reply of any kind in chat or through the microphone. I continue to sit in “C” and the incognito administrator and my accuser are sitting on the “wood” and the away from keyboard friend is still away from keyboard. So, I continue to try and break the ice and liven up the mood and type in chat, “I would be willing to bet Ms. T was a Mrs.” I didn’t get to finish typing out my next sentence, which was going to be, “because I think that was KaubaiBoi’s wife”, but I immediately got a reply from the incognito administrator in chat saying, “and there it is”. I typed in chat, “there what is?” and the next thing I know I was banned for “other”.

I don’t panic, because I knew I didn’t get to finish my statement and obviously it could have been taken the wrong way without further explanation and could have been perceived as out of context.  So, I then do what anyone else would do in my situation. I go to LMCgaming.com and try to find out how long and for what reason I was banned for. I pull up the website and see the link to source-bans on the homepage of LMCgaming.com and proceed to click it. I then look at the ban lists and I don’t see my name. I then look for the person that was banned before me. I don’t see their name either. I think, ok, maybe it has not loaded yet or something.  I go grab a drink of water and start rehearsing  what happened and what I might say if I had to put it on the forums to plead my case. I stroll back to my computer and check again, nothing. Although I am still banned. So, here I am now, pleading my case.

The whole event, which ultimately leads to me being banned was about 20-30 minutes long. I got no warning of any kind and broke no rules I’m aware of (unless free speech and joke-chat is off limits) and I got banned for what I can only assume is talking about an admin in their absence to try and liven the mood up from what had happened and try to encourage more conversation. It was late and obviously the administrators had been pulled away from something they were doing to settle something, which could have been  originally resolved through discourse or through vote kick/vote ban. So, clearly people were tired and maybe they didn’t want to talk. I can understand that. I myself was a little tired.

Maybe I am wrong and there was something I did, but I can’t see what it was other than chatting. If so it would be nice to see what that was in writing of some sort and the length of said punishment, be it finite or permanent. I would hope it was due to a misunderstanding and will not be permanent. I enjoying practicing sniping on the server from time to time and have no intention of throwing all that away over a small misunderstanding. I have spent an hour thinking about what happened after the ban and another two hours writing and proof reading this and somehow I post this at 4:30-ish a.m. PST. If anything, I have learned to type full sentences while in a game and not type like I was on AOL instant message or some or chatting program, so what I was typing would not be confused as harsh or derogatory words about administrators I’ve played with on numerous occasions and respect. I would also hope that every word I wrote here will be read, because I would do the same if it were reversed. 

This event took place July 19, 2010 between the hours of 12:00-1:00 a.m. Pacific Standard Time. Any information regarding other steam nick names, steam ids, etc I would gladly divulge this information via an email or message box to an administrator, but I would prefer to keep said information off public forums for personal reasons and out of respect for the others involved and their privacy.

Thank You.

Ms. Trouble

  • Guest
Re: Appeal
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 08:09:01 am »
---

Also Sourcebans website and the servers have issues connecting to each other, we are currently trying to fix it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 08:59:50 am by Ms. Trouble »

ZenPhire

  • |LMC| Leader
  • *******
  • Posts: 7047
  • Good times...
Re: Appeal
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 08:27:09 am »
...his disco dance-like motions...     ...“Ms. T”...   ...“I would be willing to bet Ms. T was a Mrs.”...  ...“because I think that was KaubaiBoi’s wife”
lol... Enjoyable story. I now what it feels like for others to read my long posts hee hee. =P (it's not THAT bad!... well... ;))
And no, Trouble is not my wife (she's my mistress ;), jk jk). But maybe I'll turn Polygamist hee hee; eh Troub? =D
 

PM me your Steam ID and I'll talk to the other admins about unbanning you. It sounds to me like you have a good understanding of the rules.

One thing though... although what you were doing is not technically against the rules (in the sniper rage sniping people who exit the building) and I understand that MOST practice range players do this, it is not encouraged by me (although even some admins join in on the "game"). The practice range is intended for shooting at the targets, and those killing exceptions are so that a couple people can go outside for live practice (for example: if you and a friend--or just another player-- go outside and together agree to practice shooting each other). But it seems like the practice range players now all commonly play a "Let's camp the crap out of the building exit". It's fine since people have fun with it. But I miss the says when people asked before killing each other, even outside. We used to have western style duels, and elaborate sniper wars, fun pistols only battles, and even whole staged battles. We have not had any like that for a long time because many players have lost the respect for each other and simply kill anyone who steps outside as a general rule. Even if someone politely asks "Hey I'm going outside to explore, please don't shoot me". [This is all just MY perspective, not an official stance of LMC (although maturity IS stressed here)]

muck, I meant to make this short lol. Basically what I'm trying to say is that you didn't break any rules (at least by your account of things), but I wanted to take the opportunity to plead with range users to be more mature. I'm hoping to find more people to help set a good example. (just my personal prerogative, that's all)  =)

I'll unban you right away after I talk to the admins, and since you asked very respectfully and explained your side of things. But if one of the admins tells a different story then we'll have to talk further first. ;)

Thank you for appealing the ban respectfully and in full detail of your side of the events! =D

Aloha
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 11:11:16 am by KauaiBoi »
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” – Plato

ZenPhire

  • |LMC| Leader
  • *******
  • Posts: 7047
  • Good times...
Re: Appeal
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 11:12:20 am »
---

Also Sourcebans website and the servers have issues connecting to each other, we are currently trying to fix it.

Still? I thought it fixed itself. =(  I'll have to look into THAT too lol.. Never a dull day eh? hee hee
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” – Plato

gsgen

  • |LMC| Leader
  • ******
  • Posts: 977
Re: Appeal
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 12:33:17 pm »
No Problem Trouble :<P
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 10:22:13 am by gsgen »
You Can Run But You Will Just Die Tired

Ms. Trouble

  • Guest
Re: Appeal
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 05:37:58 pm »
IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BAN PLEASE DO NOT POST A REPLY!

IF YOU DO HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THE BAN PLEASE SPEAK WITH AN OFFICER OR LEADER FIRST (ONES THAT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED)

ZenPhire

  • |LMC| Leader
  • *******
  • Posts: 7047
  • Good times...
Re: Appeal
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 05:44:37 pm »
I would unban anyone that takes the time to write that, is okay in my book and felt they did nothing wrong. Per say there is supposed to be a warning in chat and voice unless you know they heard you in voice. Even then it should have only been a kick. I know you all know this but had to say it to say it for my piece of mind since i am banned on a server for something five-o did and because of that i have not even bothered to try and fix it any one with admins that would ban me for someone else I dont need there server ever. HEHE Just bored and wanted to type.

Not on the practice range. On the range it's entirely by admin discretion. If they break the rules then they are gone with an instant perma ban if the admin feels it' necessary, no warning. Thins is simply because there are MANY ppl who just don't get it. Maybe we should vote to add admin protocols to the range too? Personally I think it would just make it too difficult. We get far too many trouble makers on the range. But I'm also in favor of justice.

I am told that this ban was for disrespect to Trouble. Maybe if "ShortBus" (scoped) here apologizes for the offense (even if it was unintentional, it's still offense to the one who took it that way, it's just how we operate), then the admin who gave the ban will rescind it.

I am not going to interfere. But if I had a choice, I'd say forgiveness is a good virtue (with the expectation to follow the rules better).

I'm okay with it either way, since I'm getting reports of multiple past warnings for breaking the rules when admins weren't on.

No matter what happens though, I'm very thankful that you appealed the ban with maturity and clarified your perspective. Not many people are capable of that.

Aloha and good luck. =)
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” – Plato

Scoped

  • I'm on my way!
  • Posts: 4
Re: Appeal
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 07:33:52 pm »
...his disco dance-like motions...     ...“Ms. T”...   ...“I would be willing to bet Ms. T was a Mrs.”...  ...“because I think that was KaubaiBoi’s wife”
lol... Enjoyable story. I now what it feels like for others to read my long posts hee hee. =P (it's not THAT bad!... well... ;))
And no, Trouble is not my wife (she's my mistress ;), jk jk). But maybe I'll turn Polygamist hee hee; eh Troub? =D
 

PM me your Steam ID and I'll talk to the other admins about unbanning you. It sounds to me like you have a good understanding of the rules.

One thing though... although what you were doing is not technically against the rules (in the sniper rage sniping people who exit the building) and I understand that MOST practice range players do this, it is not encouraged by me (although even some admins join in on the "game"). The practice range is intended for shooting at the targets, and those killing exceptions are so that a couple people can go outside for live practice (for example: if you and a friend--or just another player-- go outside and together agree to practice shooting each other). But it seems like the practice range players now all commonly play a "Let's camp the crap out of the building exit". It's fine since people have fun with it. But I miss the says when people asked before killing each other, even outside. We used to have western style duels, and elaborate sniper wars, fun pistols only battles, and even whole staged battles. We have not had any like that for a long time because many players have lost the respect for each other and simply kill anyone who steps outside as a general rule. Even if someone politely asks "Hey I'm going outside to explore, please don't shoot me". [This is all just MY perspective, not an official stance of LMC (although maturity IS stressed here)]

muck, I meant to make this short lol. Basically what I'm trying to say is that you didn't break any rules (at least by your account of things), but I wanted to take the opportunity to plead with range users to be more mature. I'm hoping to find more people to help set a good example. (just my personal prerogative, that's all)  =)

I'll unban you right away after I talk to the admins, and since you asked very respectfully and explained your side of things. But if one of the admins tells a different story then we'll have to talk further first. ;)

Thank you for appealing the ban respectfully and in full detail of your side of the events! =D

Aloha

Thank you for taking the time to read through what I wrote. I know walls of text on online forums often seem like a horror film and people cringe at them, but I am glad it was not the case here.

I have been on and off the server for over 1-2 years now and I enjoy it, because it is practically the only server where you can practice sniping on a grand scale. I also enjoy the western style sniper wars that go on and just this past Saturday there was one in which the whole server player base participated and even an administrator eventually joined in as well, which is great, because they too know most of the best places to hide and snipe while the others try to party-up and hunt the lone sniper down.  I play several big maps such as Sinjar and it’s nice to be able to practice live fire on this map with others who also like to do so, because it helps on these other heavy sniping maps I like to play.

I have no problems, nor have I ever in the past, with not shooting people who ask to come outside. Most people don’t ask for it, but on the rare occasion when someone does I have no problem not shooting someone who wants to participate in the fun. Someone will almost always inevitably shoot me and I have no problems with this either, because it’s the nature of the game and it adds more fun when someone else knows the map like I do and wants to play sniping wars with me. However, in this instance I went outside as quickly as possible, because I didn’t trust the guy and I’ve noticed lately that there is always someone who wants to push rules to the limit and try and get people to walk the line with them in hopes that they get in trouble when an administrator joins. I try and play solo-style and avoid these people as best as I can while enjoying the map.

I would unban anyone that takes the time to write that, is okay in my book and felt they did nothing wrong. Per say there is supposed to be a warning in chat and voice unless you know they heard you in voice. Even then it should have only been a kick. I know you all know this but had to say it to say it for my piece of mind since i am banned on a server for something five-o did and because of that i have not even bothered to try and fix it any one with admins that would ban me for someone else I dont need there server ever. HEHE Just bored and wanted to type.

Not on the practice range. On the range it's entirely by admin discretion. If they break the rules then they are gone with an instant perma ban if the admin feels it' necessary, no warning. Thins is simply because there are MANY ppl who just don't get it. Maybe we should vote to add admin protocols to the range too? Personally I think it would just make it too difficult. We get far too many trouble makers on the range. But I'm also in favor of justice.

I am told that this ban was for disrespect to Trouble. Maybe if "ShortBus" (scoped) here apologizes for the offense (even if it was unintentional, it's still offense to the one who took it that way, it's just how we operate), then the admin who gave the ban will rescind it.

I am not going to interfere. But if I had a choice, I'd say forgiveness is a good virtue (with the expectation to follow the rules better).

I'm okay with it either way, since I'm getting reports of multiple past warnings for breaking the rules when admins weren't on.

No matter what happens though, I'm very thankful that you appealed the ban with maturity and clarified your perspective. Not many people are capable of that.

Aloha and good luck. =)

I understand the amount of people who come on just to do one thing, grief and spawn kill like mad. It always happens no matter what and I try to stay outside when these people are on. Almost always an administrator comes on and fixes the issue and leaves and that’s that. However, I am not one of these people and I don’t disrespect administrators. I am old enough and have been playing online games long enough to know you listen and obey an administrator whether they are right or wrong. There are proper channels to go through for disputing and administrator and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Nor would I act in a manner that would contradict this.

I have no problem apologizing. I know I did not disrespect an administrator, especially Trouble, but if it was perceived that way then I am sorry. I know if I had finished my sentence in chat it would have looked different then it was alone. I am also assuming one of the administrators was Trouble, even though I know now who it was and she did not ban me anyway, but that’s beside the point. I was banned by someone else under a different name, but that’s ok too. I am not going to rant and rave and argue about what was what. I distanced myself from emotion when I was writing my appeal to get the facts as correct as possible and thought long and hard about exactly what happened and what was said. My original post is very accurate, if I do say so myself (not to toot my own horn). What happened, happened and what is, is. I am going to let dead dogs lay now. I would just like to know that if when I am on Steam and Insurgency tickles my fancy that I would not be forbidden from practicing sniping and playing on one of my favorite servers due to a simple misunderstanding.

Thank You.

P.S. I was going to PM you my info, but I guess you already have it. And if it hasn’t been apparent I would like to thank you for having open forums for this type of thing.

Ms. Trouble

  • Guest
Re: Appeal
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 12:42:18 am »
YOU: i'd be willing to bet she wastn't a Ms
*** Rules for Shooting Range: Absolutely NO attacking players who are inside the building.
*** You may only fire on players outside the building if you are outside as well.
*** To Kick a rule breaker type 'votekick' in chat. (votekick & voteban in effect on this server)

Jack and Bingo: Well there it is
*** Be respectful to all players, and obey admins.
*** Short-Bus Allstar killed Kilroy
YOU: there's what?
*** NO recruiting, NO racism.

Yes please do watch what you say.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 01:14:11 pm by Ms. Trouble »

Scoped

  • I'm on my way!
  • Posts: 4
Re: Appeal
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 12:32:01 pm »
YOU: i'd be willing to bet she wastn't a Ms
*** Rules for Shooting Range: Absolutely NO attacking players who are inside the building.
*** You may only fire on players outside the building if you are outside as well.
*** To Kick a rule breaker type 'votekick' in chat. (votekick & voteban in effect on this server)

Jack and Bingo: Well there it is
*** Be respectful to all players, and obey admins.
*** Short-Bus Allstar killed Kilroy

YOU: there's what?
*** NO recruiting, NO racism.

Yes, this looks correct to me.

I apologize for not being able to copy and paste from the console to give you all a more clear and accurate body of text for what happened, but the ban was a complete surprise and shock to me and I was not expecting it at all. I wasn’t even thinking about such a thing, so I didn’t even bother to copy anything from the console. Also, again, I am sorry for suggesting an administrator was married and for even talking about the possible marital status of an administrator while in their absence. I understand they would not be present and therefore unable to defend such a claim and I did not realize talking about the marital status of an administrator or even suggesting an administrator’s marital status was against the rules and a bannable offense. I now know this to be a rule and can correct any future behavior or chat I may partake in that may contain such material. 

Thank You.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 01:14:29 pm by Ms. Trouble »

Ms. Trouble

  • Guest
Re: Appeal
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 12:59:28 pm »
It was not taken as you were talking about the martial status it was taken as you implying i was not a female. That is why you got banned. But its fine, misunderstanding happen. Just please watch what you say and type, no one knows what you trying to say or imply except for yourself.

---UNBANNED---
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 02:18:31 pm by Ms. Trouble »

Scoped

  • I'm on my way!
  • Posts: 4
Re: Appeal
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 01:37:45 pm »
It was not taken as you were talking about the martial status it was taken as you implying i was not a female. That is why you got banned. But its fine, misunderstanding happen. Just please watch what you say and type, no one knows what you trying to say or imply except for yourself.

---UNBANNED---
if no one has unbanned you yet go ahead and pm your ID and i'll do it asap

I thank you and all your other administrators for taking the time to review and conclude on my appeal in a very respectful manner. I have nothing, but admiration and gratitude for a community that not only has mature officers, but responds to something such as this on their open forums in a calm and collective way. I thank you for allowing me to still continue play on one of my favorite maps. I sent you a private message with my information, because I am still banned on the one server I so enjoy.

Also, in regards to how my comments were perceived. As I stated in my original post I knew right away your gender even though I could not hear what you initially said on your microphone, because it cut out right away, but it was clearly a female voice. I see now how such a comment could be seen as implying someone was a male when in fact they were a female. I would never knowingly suggest such a thing as this; especially to an administrator I had previously played numerous games with on this very same map. Such a thing as this is below me and I would dare not sink to such a level.

Thank You.

Ms. Trouble

  • Guest
Re: Appeal
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 02:23:26 pm »
PMed you.

---Topic locked---